Giles Gray

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Posts by Giles Gray

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  33

  JWs exist because...

  by oldskool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one sentence answers only.. here's mine:.

  jws exist because people want an escape from the modern world and are willing to give up intellectual freedom to get it..

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  Giles Gray

  Because people don't honestly question or reason anywhere near as much as they ought to...
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  15

  'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

  i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

  not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

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  Giles Gray

  EdenOne

  I thought The Harp Of God came out with the first edition in 1921 (of which I am the proud owner of) and the second edition in 1928?
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  71

  Confusing Opinions with Facts

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion about the best flavour of ice cream everybody's opinion is equally valid.. in a discussion about the shape of the earth or the origin of species everybody's opinion is equally irrelevant.

  only objective facts and evidence matter.. confusing these two categories is a common feature of conversations in this forum.

  people deserve respect, errors do not..

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  Giles Gray

  Vidqun

  "Abiogenesis aside, I struggle with the concept: "From fish to man." Cognitive dissonance in a big way. It is f*#%ing impossible."

  I empathise with such sentiments. Have felt the same myself in the past. What changed my mind was looking into the fossil record of whales.

  The evidence suggests that whales and dolphins evolved from a group of mammals that lived on land known as the mesonychids.

  The fossil record can demonstrate the gradual evolution from land animal to sea creature.

  But the fact is that vestigial legs are found in every whale and dolphin.

  This was verified on a trip to the Natural History Museum where I took pictures of every example of modern day whale and dolphin.

  The facts are plain and simple. Fish with legs in them. No cognitive dissonance. Just substantiated evidence.

  I wouldn't have believed it unless I had seen it. Now I have seen the evidence. Surely that now must be factual?
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  47

  Evolution is a Fact #37 - Testicles

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take a look at the back of your tv/entertainment centre.

  a mass of power and signal cables connect the various pieces of equipment in very specific ways.

  imagine you wanted to switch the locations of your satellite receiver and your dvd player.

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  Giles Gray

  TheLiberator

  "Why… would someone put the spark plugs behind the front wheel on the driver’s side of my son’s Mazda? Seems stupid to me. But if you ask the maker he will explain exactly why. And your ignorance will shine."

  
  

  
  

  Having worked for a few manufacturers in the auto industry, I can tell you exactly what the makers would say. They would say that it was a design fault. They would own up to the fact that it was poor design… a flaw, if you wish.

  I don’t know for sure but I would guess that the engine in your son’s Mazda was designed long before the rest of the car and subsequently, had to be compromised due to other factors of how the car is designed. Happens all the time. There are limited funds for R and D, so things don’t get thought out quite as well as they should be.

  A perfect god doesn’t have that excuse. Even the maker of your son’s Mazda would look at the routing of the vas deferens and see that it has not been thought out. It is a flaw. It works, as do your son’s spark plugs, but it is a flawed design, like your son’s Mazda.

  I don’t see the migration of the gonads from fish to man laughable at all. To claim the route that the vas deferens takes was created with intelligence is quite laughable. A little like the vestigial legs in whales.

  If you were to board a submarine and you found a differential, rear axles and a rusty set of disk brakes with seized calipers at the rear of the boat, that were clearly designed into the integral structure of the underwater sea vessel, you would seriously have to wonder about the designer. A submarine obviously has no need at all for wheels or a car’s drive shaft.

  Yet that is exactly the case with whales. They have very distinct vestigial legs at the rear of their bodies, miniature hip joints that are clearly distinguishable, leg bones even…

  Why would an intelligent designer create a fish with legs inside its body? That really would be absurd. Evolution explains exactly why this is. But why would a creator put legs in a fish, or needlessly route the vas deferens the long way round?
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  114

  Evidence for a Young Earth

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for additional information:.

  for additional information:.

  for additional information:.

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  Giles Gray

  I just had a quick look and the last mention of the 49K belief was the Warchtower, January 1st 1987 Questions from readers.

  That's got to be embarrassing...
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  90

  New DNA Study Confirms Noah

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.icr.org/article/9325/.

  amazing read...go on , have a laugh if you want to.. new dna study confirms noah.

  by brian thomas, m.s.

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  Giles Gray

  Ok ........I am bending over .........waiting for the first rear - gunner to attack me !

  (Cough...Blush) well, I'm no 'rear gunner', but I will say that I am very appreciative that someone took the time to challenge me on my false perspectives whilst a JW.

  Indeed it is true that we were all wrong when we were in the organization, but then some of us were in such a religion because we prized truth.

  In this respect we haven't altered. We are now much better informed but with the addition of finding our voices after a long imposition of silence. It would be a shame to waste our hard earned freedom and not be able to challenge obvious falsehoods.
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  114

  Evidence for a Young Earth

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for additional information:.

  for additional information:.

  for additional information:.

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  Giles Gray

  Perry

  The 49,000 years of creation was last promoted in the literature as late as 1987 I believe.

  I don't think today they specify an allotted time for each day. They just say that each period was a long period of time.

  When they have got more specific, like in the publication 'The Origin Of Life', they have used the estimates of science, although they don't specify they believe such estimation as true.

  However you look at it, be it six literal days or six long periods of time, none of it stacks up to what science has discovered. The bible's account is incorrect, plain and simple.

  
  
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  90

  New DNA Study Confirms Noah

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.icr.org/article/9325/.

  amazing read...go on , have a laugh if you want to.. new dna study confirms noah.

  by brian thomas, m.s.

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  Giles Gray

  Cofty

  In my Evolution is a fact series I have had countless insults and personal attacks by christians. I never retaliate. When you have the facts on your side why would you?

  I agree.
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  90

  New DNA Study Confirms Noah

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.icr.org/article/9325/.

  amazing read...go on , have a laugh if you want to.. new dna study confirms noah.

  by brian thomas, m.s.

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  Giles Gray

  NotNew

  Creationists use science and logic and evidence?

  I wish. Would be far better sport.
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  90

  New DNA Study Confirms Noah

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.icr.org/article/9325/.

  amazing read...go on , have a laugh if you want to.. new dna study confirms noah.

  by brian thomas, m.s.

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  Giles Gray

  On the other hand, the Bible presents information to the contrary, AND answers the all-important question that evolution cannot: Whence evil?
  

  And that proves it true does it?

  If you haven't thoroughly studied the evidence is it any wonder why you don't understand why things have taken such a long time.